There are plenty of examples of full and half brothers standing as sires, but very few where two or more brothers have made the grade as outstanding commercial sires. Will recent arrival Roll With Joe, full brother to Bettor’s Delight, be an exception?
In New Zealand and Australia, the ‘brothers at stud’ situation has usually involved an imported brother to a top sire we have not been able to access with our mares for one reason or another – an example is Chill Factor, the brother of Artsplace. With frozen semen and shuttling much more common now, this reason is less prevalent. The other common situation is when a good (but less well performed or known) brother stands at a much cheaper price than the ‘original’ in the hope of capitalising on the glow factor and drawing breeders in a different price range – an example is Extreme Three/ Mach Three, and Julius Caesar/Christian Cullen who are standing (but not really competing) in the same market.
To be top performing racehorse is hard enough, but to be a top sire is even harder. And to get progeny from one mare that can achieve both these things more than once is exceptional.
Four sons of Rich N Elegant have tried, but not succeeded in terms of siring careers at the top end (Western Hanover full brothers Rustler Hanover, Red River Hanover, Richess Hanover and Righteous Hanover), but their Western Ideal half brother Rocknroll Hanover is certainly making a great job of his chances, and may even be starting his own siring line. I’ve covered more of that in a previous blog series collaborating with equineexcellence’s Ray Chaplin.
Probably the most famous successful example is that wonderful mare Amour Angus and her siring sons Angus Hall, Andover Hall and Conway Hall, who have all performed as credible sires in their own right and are now sires of sires.
Perfect Profile left two excellent performing sons who went successfully to stud – Art Major and Perfect Art, although the latter died before his true legacy as a sire could unfold. Although perhaps not “gold” ranked (on Ray Chaplin’s equineexcellence.biz criteria) Perfect Art was definitely “silver”. Of course he wasn’t directly competing as a sire with Art Major in the same market.
Marketing Joe
The interesting thing about Roll With Joe is that he is being placed in the market at $6000, which means his owners and Pepper Tree Farm are taking a punt on him in his own right. He may well be a less expensive siring option for breeders than Bettor’s Delight, but he is certainly not cheap. In New Zealand, he’s probably competing in a similar market (for type of sire) as newcomers Well Said (at Nevele R, $8000, frozen) and even more so with Big Jim (Alabar, $4,500) as a well proven top end racehorse who could be attractive commercially and may deliver speed.
His mid zone price category is a tricky one, with most of our NZ studs lowering their prices from this level, so his key competition at the same price may well turn out to be his colleague at Pepper Tree Farm, Sportswriter.
So is this “Bettor’s Delight but bigger”? Well, he is a bigger horse than Bettor’s Delight, although 15.2 is really only medium sized and both his sire Cam’s Card Shark and his dam Classic Wish were smaller, quick type of horses, so I would not place too much emphasis on Roll With Joe’s bigger size considering his parents. Genes may well dictate that more often than not he will leave medium or smaller horses, and for that reason I would look to bigger mares for him in much the same way that you might add that into consideration for Bettor’s Delight.
At $6000, the idea of “two Roll With Joes for the price of one Bettor’s Delight” would be a risky strategy – breeders with $6000 to spend on their mare will probably be at the commercial end of the market and may be willing to pay more for the proven brother, or breeders that prefer to shop in the mid-range (currently $4000 to $5500) of sires but may be willing to stretch a little bit to get something special – and is Roll With Joe that special as a sire?
His brother or his mother?
I think he could be. He was a very good racehorse, but what interests me from a siring perspective much more is the recent blossoming of his maternal line thanks to some great breeding choices over the past couple of generations.
Roll With Joe doesn’t have exactly the same genes as Bettor’s Delight – we know from our own human experience that although they share the same parents, siblings can be very different physically and in talents.
What you are getting with Roll With Joe is not a clone of Bettor’s Delight but rather a proven performing racehorse from the same genetic foundation but with his own unique combination of “nature and nurture” factors.
Take the x factor/heart size gene as an example. As a colt he must take his x chromosone from his dam – but she has two x chromosomes on offer, and which one Bettor’s Delight got and Roll With Joe got may not be the same. That’s where the quality of their dam really comes into play.
And what a mother she’s turned out to be. She is the dam not only of top sire Bettor’s Delight (by Cam’s Card Shark), but of excellent racehorse and proven sire No Pan Intended (by Pacific Fella) – and it is her ability to produce horses from different sires who can then succeed as racehorses and as sires that is really exceptional – and a marker of great genes.
(Quote from article Classic Wish: A Maryland Mare of Distinction by Ted Black.) “I think I got lucky when I purchased her,” says Thompson (Classic Wish’s owner Joe Thompson of Winbak Farm). It was one of those things where I thought she would boost our breeding product because of her speed. Some people may not have taken a chance on her, but in business you have to go away from the norm sometimes and do things that others might not try. It’s worked out for me so far. She’s a great broodmare … and I hope she keeps producing quality racehorses. What I liked about her was her breeding and her speed,” Thomson said. “She was by [Canadian Hall of Famer] Armbro Emerson and out of an Albatross mare, and she had a mark of 1:52, which for mares back then was very fast. It’s still a good time. She’s one of those mares that has been good right from the start.” Though not a big mare – she stands just 15.1 hands – Classic Wish possesses a long body. During his years in the breeding business, Thomson has discovered that mares built this way often develop into top broodmare prospects. “I think the lengthy mares cross better with many of the sires,” he noted. “[And] the big mares don’t often pan out as productive broodmares.” Thomson also called Classic Wish a “nice” mare. “She’s got a great disposition,” he said. “A lot of mares that raced for years can be nasty, but she’s actually quite pleasant.”
Classic Wish’s sire Armbro Emerson was a very good millionaire son of Abercrombie who won a Breeders Crown at 4yo and took a time of 1.52.3. He become a sucessful sire based in Canada. He’s bred 4×3 to Tar Heel and 4×4 to Adios. His maternal line includes the wonderful racemare of the 1950s Dottie’s Pick and of course Most Happy Fella. Dottie’s Pick traces back to the great Extasy/Ethelwyn family.
So in conclusion, the greatest attribute for Roll With Joe as a potential siring success story will be the strong proven genetic foundation from his maternal side, rather than the more obvious marketing association with Bettor’s Delight. Like Bettor’s Delight, it is a pedigree that should suit a wide range of our New Zealand mares, particularly (once again) the amount of Tar Heel that lurks relatively close up in many of our pedigrees.
When breeders consider going to either of these sons of Classic Wish, what they will get is always partly the roll of the genetic dice. However thanks to the classy foundation of Classic Wish, the dice may be a little more ‘fixed’ in their favour!
In a coming blog, I’ll look at the potential impact of large numbers of Bettor’s Delight mares (and possibly Roll With Joe mares!) in our future gene pool – can you get too much of a good thing?
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