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Archive for November, 2015

This discussion started with David’s thoughts based on mainly Australian statistics, then others including some NZ statistics I copied in. Finally here’s the link to the USTA statistics (of course as Dot says they are not an “apples with apples” comparison, and there will be some double ups like Texican N for the In The Pocket cross, but interesting nevertheless). I see that BG’s Bunny doesn’t show up at all in the USTA stats for “crosses of gold” with Bettor’s Delight, which is intriguing.

Perhaps we can make “calls” about higher percentage crosses with BD as a sire now, because we have many years of high numbers to look back on, giving these statistics some validity.

What is harder is to predict what will cross well with Bettor’s Delight as a damsire because, as David Sinclair pointed out, that is really where he is most likely to leave a long term inheritance.

So in our statistics – be they Australian, NZ or North American, the eyes will be out for what patterns might be showing up in that area. Of course relatively small numbers of BD mares will have had foals of racing age, but I am still quite surprised at the few times he is showing up as a damsire in many of the sires we know. With Art Major and American Ideal there are some solid percentages but nothing jumping out of the box yet.

I’m also aware that location of a sire and his mares can make a big difference to what get to go with what in America, whereas in New Zealand it is like one big state, all in.

I’ve blogged before on this topic and kept an eye out for BD as a damsire with yearlings coming through the sales. But haven’t looked at the stats recently.

If anyone wants to dig deeper on the mare/family matches so far with BD as a damsire in all those countries, go for it and I am happy to post up your thoughts or leave a comment on this blog.

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Franklin trials was the venue for two 2yos by Sportswriter to get their racing ticket in New Zealand. View video here.

For my Aussie blog followers, this is a big yawn probably, as Sportswriter took off like a cracker as a sire over the ditch, and has more than 500 foals to his name and many already racing. (Although are they carrying on next season? I’m interested to get feedback on that).

Over here, it’s a different story and it follows the Art Major scenario, where Australian breeders tend to “give the new kid a go”, where we sit back and watch and wait or make our own sire out of some 2×4 and corrugated iron… (which can work well, trust me). Possibly the Kiwi/Aussie cultural difference is expressing itself through the means of chilled or frozen semen lol.

In New Zealand the sire Sportswriter had only 18 mares for each of his first years available here, but elevated that to 76 in the last season (2015). His fertility seems high. His foals are good looking. But of course they still need to carve out their name here, where we can only believe what we see on the racetrack.

So from small crops, these 2yo Sportswriter colts are both doing their sire a huge favour, just by finishing 1st and 2nd in a qualifying trial in a good time. Not to be sneezed at.

The 2yo Sportswriter in this case are: winner Mitch Maguire (Miley Maguire x Christian Cullen, from the Tabella Beth family) , and 2nd place-getter by a length The Lone Ranger (Cruzee Lass x Christian Cullen),  in a good time for the 1 mile qualifier on the Franklin track.

Giving credit to the dams: Cruzee Lass won 9 races from 39 starts, with 6 seconds for just a fraction off $100,000 stakes. The breeder of The Lone Ranger is Stonewall Stud, who really know their families and have a very accessible syndicate system to give people the chance to get into harness racing.

On the other hand, the dam of Mitch Maguire was Miley Maguire who never raced after some impressive workout and trial results, so she obviously had ability but something went amiss. I will follow up with breeder Ray and Diane Kennedy in due course.

The fact that both are from Christian Cullen mares may or may not turn out to be significant. But for now, it’s nice to see a new kid get success on the Kiwi block.

Note: Sportswriter is son of Artsplace with his damsire being the fantastic Jate Lobell and his grandamsire Big Towner, and she is from the very strong Wilellen family – check it out that link on Classic Families.

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Here is a follow up response from Dot – all contributing to the discussion and our pool of ideas and knowledge as breeders.

I agree with Dot about the statistics, and it is hard to compare apples with apples. Which is why the marketeers get away with things like “world record holder” for a sport that doesn’t have comparable world/region distances and worldwide races (though we might get there eventually). But I have to give big thumbs up to the HRNZ team for “Info Horse” database they have developed for racing and breeding statistics in New Zealand. It is a fantastic resource.

As Dot says (albeit with a very appropriate “dam” rather than “damn”) statistics can be used to back up any theory you want… but I still think they are also a good way of checking if your assumptions are on target or slightly off beam.

You know what they say, lies, dam lies and statistics. Unfortunately all the data bases have their varying limitations so it does makes it a bit of a task to go through each to find what you want to know. Classic families is my preferred one but of course it doesn’t give  the number of foals born bred on the same cross.

If your a fan of sibling crosses then the high %age (of successful crosses by Bettor’s Delight) with Albert Albert (AA) mares will come as no surprise as Albert Albert’s dam is Lismore, BGs Bunny’s full sister.  On your NZ stats Bee, Bettor’s Delight (BD) hasn’t done nearly as well with (albeit it’s a small sample) Life Sign mares. To all intents and purposes (except mitachondrial DNA ) Albert Albert and Life Sign are full brothers.

Over on classic families though BD has a healthy representation of classic winners from Albert Albert mares but a much greater one from Life Sign (LS) mares ( I don’t know how many of each he served but I’m guessing more Life Sign ) but what stands out to me is the much greater earnings of the Life Sign ones with two millionaires and another not very far away.

David I haven’t read Norman’s book but I know of his philosophy and as well as the sibling cross both AA and LS match BDs Abercrombie/Albatross dam lines. The two millionaires also descend from very prolific female families, Golden Miss U20, and Betty G U13, the other from a family a little further down the family numbers hierarchy. Kevin I don’t think the sire lines are unimportant but like you I do think that more attention should be paid to the female family.

Off course the Artsplace millionaires by BD are even wealthier still and they don’t have the sibling cross but they do match the dam lines and descend from good families. The later is pretty much a given, they’re by Artsplace, who is pretty easily arguably the best sire in the breed and covered many of the best mares and there can be little doubt BD has covered many Artsplace mares. But two of the richest are from the same Artsplace mare which suggests she has something special going for her that many other Artsplace mares didn’t when mated to BD.

As you wrote Bee 33% 50k plus winners ( and their way over that benchmark) from BGs Bunny mares for BD but from an exceptionally small sample when you consider its the same mare. That 33% doesn’t say anything really about BD over BGs Bunny mares at large but certainly suggests that he’s been a fabulous consort for one particular BGs Bunny mare as he has been for one particular Artsplace mare. And congratulations to all the people involved in producing these horses for it takes far more then pedigree to get the money in the bank.

The BD/Artsplace cross has been backed up with other good performers but the actual %ages might be an interesting read. Of course in the U.S. they don’t register every foal which pushes the %ages up.

Another successful son of Cams Card Shark at stud though nowhere near as prolific as BD is Four Starzzz Shark who has most of his top performers through Life Sign and here in Australia Albert Albert ( from the same female family, coincidence? Maybe maybe not) so the sibling cross again, though not from the most prolific female families or matching the dam lines. Which doesn’t necessarily suggest Kevin’s liking for strong female families isn’t relevant it may just be that FSS hasn’t covered LS or AA mares from stronger families.  Also the dam lines don’t match but that isn’t necessarily proof that that isn’t important, if they did match then maybe FSS would have even better success with the Abercrombie/Albatross line sires. Of course if FSS had Abercrombie/albatross dam lines he wouldn’t be FSS he’d be more like Bettors Delight!

One who obviously is very much like BD is his brother Roll With Joe, who with only his first crop at the races has just a small number of offspring in classic families to date. But in my opinion they make interesting and largely predictable reading and it will be interesting to watch as the numbers grow.

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Following on again from the discussion initiated by David Sinclair about the influence of Tar Heel with Bettor’s Delight and He’s Watching.

In reply Dot Schmidt suggested that “To make the figures relevant a % of performers to foals is needed.” So I have tried to rectify that with some information below from the NZSBA/HRNZ databases.

Below is an extract from the very good list of crosses by sire (and separately by damsire) which is produced each year by the NZ Standardbred Breeders Assn. It is available on the association’s website, but in a members only section that requires a password. This section shows the crosses of Bettor’s Delight with mares from all other sires. The report shows the results in terms of % starters and winners, but also 2yo starters/winners, 3yo starters/winners, and several other categories relating to performance (times/stakes). It is a great resource for checking anecdotal wisdom against facts. Unfortunately I can’t reproduce it here.

This is for statistics up to the end of the 2014/2015 season, so end of July 2015.

It is interesting to see at a glance that the so-called “golden cross” of In The Pocket (ITP) mares with Bettor’s Delight doesn’t show up spectacularly on a purely winners percentage basis. But the number of foals produced on that cross (207 foals 2yo+ at 31 July 2015) is by far the largest for Bettor’s Delight as a sire.

When it comes to the statistics on percentage of foals that have made 50k plus, 11% of foals by BD from ITP mares reach that level or higher. It is still not as high a percentage as for some other damsires – looking at the results from BD x Albert Albert mares (a total of 16 foals), you can see below that 81% have been winners, and in the larger chart it shows that 3 of those 16 foals won over $50k (19%).

So can you really call the BD x ITP cross a “golden” one?

The cross with BG’s Bunny mares (including the great Adore Me) has also produced a high percentage strike rate for small numbers – from just 6 foals, two thirds have been winners and one third (2 foals) have won $5ok or more. However if you look at the detail you will find Adore Me’s dam Excuse Me makes up almost all of those foals! (More on that aspect at end of this blog)

Probably a fairer comparison with the Bettor’s Delight/In The Pocket cross are other crosses that have generated a larger number of foals.

Bettor's Delight at Woodlands Stud NZ

Bettor’s Delight at Woodlands Studof foals.

The cross with Holmes Hanover mares has resulted in 121 foals aged 2yo +.  As you can see, the percentage of starters and winners compares very well with ITP mares and that may add to David Sinclair’s reasoning about the influence of Tar Heel – the figures for NZ foals certainly support his theory. Of course both BG’s Bunny and Holmes Hanover are sons of Albatross, so is that an influence? The two other sons of Albatross (Soky’s Atom and Vance Hanover) in the list also show good ratios of winners, but less so in terms of real high class performers (respectively 7% and 0% winners of $50k+).

The other damsire to rate closer to In The Pocket in terms of mares going to Bettor’s Delight is Christian Cullen, with 122 foals of 2yo+ on this cross). You can see his figures below for starters and winners (54%, 40%) and in terms of $50k+ performers he rates at 10%, which is pretty much the same as his own sire In The Pocket.

The crosses with Bettor’s Delight that have really shown up in terms of percentage of $50k+ earners – regardless of the numbers of foals – are Albert Albert (19%), BG’s Bunny (33%), Camtastic (20%), Dream Away (16%), Road Machine (20%), Smooth Fella (18%) and What’s Next (20%). I took 15% as my cut-off point. I haven’t looked at the pedigrees of those damsires to see if there are any common elements.

Which leads me to the other element that we must keep in mind regarding these crosses – the mare’s full pedigree plays a role in the cross, not just her damsire.

When you look at some of the detail of these results you find that a mare might have gone back two or more times to Bettor’s Delight for good results, indicating it is an overall good match with the mare as a total package (pedigree, conformation etc). An example is the 100% foals/winners for the Bettor’s Delight cross with Son Of Afella and Walton Hanover mares. You can check those for yourself by using the wonderful Harness Racing NZ Info Horse database, searching for Bettor’s Delight, then filtering on Dam Sire drop down option. See here for the Walton Hanover example. The mares Tosca Hanover (dam of 2015 Cup winner Arden Rooney) has been to Bettor’s Delight twice, both winners. Likewise Touch of Grace. Putting On The Glitz has been three times for three winners.

So I guess it depends what criteria you use – simply foals/winners, or looking at the likelihood of getting something special. Often early success by one or two foals generates talk of a “golden cross” which then adds breeding numbers on that cross and perhaps a better chance of further success. That’s why these statistics are interesting, as they show some sires have had a very good strike rate with Bettor’s Delight from much more limited numbers than In The Pocket has had, and particularly with individual mares.

Breeders who know their mares and who “think b4 breeding” may be more likely to find their own “golden cross”.

 

 NZ registered foals
BETTOR’S DELIGHT No. of foals 2yo+ Starters    % Winners    %
All Sires: 1212 730 60 571 47
Albert Albert 16 13 81 13 81
Artiscape 12 6 50 5 41
Artsplace 19 8 42 5 26
Badlands Hanover 40 24 60 17 42
Beach Towel 16 8 50 5 31
B G’s Bunny 6 4 66 4 66
Bo Scots Blue Chip 7 3 42 2 28
Butler B G 15 12 80 9 60
Camtastic(USA) 5 3 60 2 40
Caprock 9 6 66 5 55
Christian Cullen 122 67 54 49 40
Courage Under Fire 9 4 44 3 33
Dream Away(USA) 31 23 74 18 58
Fake Left 15 9 60 8 53
Falcon Seelster 80 47 58 40 50
Frugal Gourmet 7 4 57 4 57
Holmes Hanover 121 80 66 58 47
Il Vicolo 8 7 87 3 37
In The Pocket 207 126 60 101 48
Life Sign 7 4 57 3 42
Live Or Die 31 19 61 15 48
Mach Three 14 8 57 5 35
McArdle 5 2 40 2 40
Miles McCool 7 4 57 4 57
Nero’s B B 8 4 50 4 50
New York Motoring 28 18 64 12 42
OK Bye 20 8 40 8 40
Pacific Rocket 5 1 20 0 0
Payson’s Brother 6 3 50 2 33
Presidential Ball 19 11 57 10 52
Red River Hanover 5 2 40 0 0
Road Machine 5 4 80 3 60
Safely Kept 5 3 60 3 60
Sands A Flyin 10 7 70 4 40
Smooth Fella 22 18 81 18 81
Soky’s Atom 72 41 56 36 50
Son Of Afella 7 7 0 7 100
Tuapeka Knight 5 4 80 2 40
Vance Hanover 25 17 68 15 60
Walton Hanover 7 7 0 7 100
Washington VC 6 2 33 1 16
Western Hanover(USA) 6 2 33 2 33
What’s Next 10 4 40 3 30

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Dot Schmidt in Australia has sent in this thoughtful response to the discussion in the previous blog re the influence of Tar Heel with Bettor’s Delight and He’s Watching.

David has obviously put a lot of work into that but for mine there’s a couple of things to query. For his top 50 performers in Australia are these restricted to foaled in Australia, or are NZ imports included? To make the figures relevant a % of performers to foals is needed. 11 in the top 50 from ITP mares foaled in Australia I’d guess would be a very high % of performers but probably not if some of these are imports and thus cherry picked from a much larger foal crop. %age wise maybe the Artsplace, or particularly the Safely Kept crosses as I doubt that BD served many Safely Kept mares may actually be much better. Off course you need, and this goes particularly for some of the other sires listed a large enough number of offspring to be statistically relevant.

I noted Falcon Seelster wasn’t on David’s list of Broodmare sires in Australia which I thought was interesting as I recall something on your blog about the success of BD over Falcon Seelster mares in NA. I’m sure that this would be an anomaly rather then evidence  that BDs out of Falcon Seelster mares can’t run in Australia!

Is David’s fondness for Tar Heel based on the theory of “X factor” as found in Mariann Hanns books? If so the horse genome has been completely mapped and there is no single large heart gene found on the X chromosome. There are sires who do make a bigger contribution to a breed as broodmare sires then others and Tar Heel was certainly one. It may have something to do with the X chromosome but it will be multiple genes and probably as much to do with skeletal muscle as large hearts which obviously do exist just not as the result of a single gene.

With He’s Watching I’m not sure that the 8 (6 unique) strains of Tar Heels in the 6th generation is particularly relevant but perhaps the symmetry is what appeals. Meadow Skipper, not all in the 6th generation but there abouts has 13 strains through his sons and daughters and 7 unique so actually contributes a larger % of genes to He’s Watching. I think He’s Watchings high speed and success as a racehorse is largely due to the reinforcing of his highly successful U7 influences Leah Almahurst and Three Diamonds and luck in the genetic draw moreso then the influence of Tar Heel in the 6th generation. I do agree with David on the reinforcing of family U2 though.

I agree he could do well with BD mares but not in my opinion because of the Tar Heel lines in both but moreso because closer up BGs Bunny is genetically speaking very nearly a full sibling to Three Diamonds. Also the Abercrombie over Albatross found in both. Off course the other half of the mares pedigree counts too, some of Shy Ann’s descendants  as found in both Real Desire and Jenna’s Beach Boy wouldn’t go astray and as David pointed out The Old Maid/ Spinster U2 family.

I doubt it would ever happen but I’d imagine a He’s Warching out of Adore Me could a seriously fast horse! Two BGs Bunnys plus Farm timer who descends from Nora Adelle and has two lines of family U2

Of course the beauty of discussing breeding theories is just that, it’s theory and no one is necessarily more right then another and as they say opinions are like a***holes, everyone has one!

See also Kevin’s comment to this post. Click on the arrow alongside “One comment” below.

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I’d like to share some research and observations by Australian blog follower David Sinclair. David says: “Although I currently don’t have any horses nor am I currently breeding any I am truly fascinated with bloodlines and pedigrees, and really enjoy learning as much as I possibly can.” David emailed me with his analysis of some of the influences of Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco combination in current crosses with Bettor’s Delight and potentially with He’s Watching, and then with some of his thoughts on why some sires perform a huge role as damsires but struggle to leave a top siring son – and will his permission I’d like to share this exchange with you.

Addtional thoughts welcome – leave a comment at the end of the blog (although I know a lot of you prefer to email me direct at bee.raglan@xtra.co.nz). David’s comments are based on Australian statistics.

David Sinclair:

Touching on your very informative article on B4Breeding.com regarding He’s Watching, I too am very interested to see what kind of job He’s Watching is able to do at stud. I have always suspected that he would be a fine job but until the results finally come to fruition I guess he’s still a bit of an unknown.

I have actually been doing a bit of research because I have a theory regarding what type of mares he would best suit. I am very interested to hear your thoughts. The first thing that stands out to me is the 8 sources of Tar Heel in his 6th generation, 6 of those sources being unique. I have always held the view that a big part of the reason for the success of Bettor’s Delight as a sire is his affinity with Tar Heel maternally, particularly In The Pocket mares. Although I only have Australian stats to go by, I had a look at the broodmare sire of Bettors Delight’s top 50 money earning progeny to race in Australia in order to try and determine any pattern. Not surprisingly, I believe that stats validate my suspicions.

Of Bettor’s Delight’s top 50 progeny to race in Australia, the list of broodmare sires is as follow with number of foals within the top 50 listed in brackets.

In The Pocket

In The Pocket – his mares are a great cross with Bettor’s Delight. His damsire is Tar Heel.

In The Pocket (11)
Artsplace (3)
Safely Kept (3)
Christian Cullen (3)
Sokys Atom (2)
Butler BG (2)
Dream Away (2)
Albert Albert (2)
Holmes Hanover (2)
Ticket To Heaven
BGs Bunny
Camtastic
What’s Next
Walton Hanover
Troublemaker
Classic Garry
Northern Lights
On The Road Again
Silent Spring
Sands A Flyin
Seahawk Hanover
Die Laughing
Perfect Art
Make A Deal
New York Motoring
Direct Scooter
Village Jasper
Live Or Die
Save Fuel

As you can see, not surprisingly In The Pocket as a broodmare sire accounts for 11 of Bettor’s Delights top 50 progeny by earnings, a staggering 22%! However, when you look at what Bettor’s Delight brings to the table, the affinity for Tar Heel makes complete sense.

Bettor’s Delight carries:
Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco double through dam sire (Armbro Emerson/Most Happy Fella & Amrbro Emerson/Tar Heel), Adioo through dam sire (Armbro Emerson/Adios), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Armbro Emerson/Follow Up), Kathleen double through dam sire (Armbro Emerson), through both Most Happy Fella via Good Time and through Armbro Emerson’s 9th dam who is Kathleen; Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Albatross/Tar Heel), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through 2nd dam sire (Albatross/Dancer Hanover); Lida W through 3rd dam sire (Meadow Gene/Nutwood Wilkes) **San Francisco is out of Oniska, with Oniska bred 2×3 maternally to Lida W**; San Francisco through 7th dam sire (San Francisco).

Given Bettor’s Delights own strong connection to Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco/Oniska/Lida W, his ability to match so well to In The Pocket mares is not surprising, given In The Pocket is out of a Tar Heel mare. You may also note a close up connection to the Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen blood as well through Bettors first 2 dams. Given the strong influence of Spinster, particularly through Light Brigade and Bachelor Hanover, amongst the NZ broodmare band I believe that this serves to further strengthen the connections to Tar Heel, adding a further string to the bow.

Now, considering Holmes Hanover is also out of a Tar Heel mare you may wonder why there aren’t more horses in the top 50 with Holmes Hanover as a broodmare sire. In my opinion I do not believe that Tar Heel is the main driving force behind Holmes Hanover maternally, rather it is more focused upon Margaret Parrish/Arion/Manette.

Now to go through what each of those broodmare sires brings to the table maternally.
In The Pocket – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Tar Heel);
Artsplace –carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Albatross), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through dam sire (Albatross), plus Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Columbia George), 3rd dam sire (Duane Hanover) & 7th dam sire (Dillon Axworthy);
Safely Kept – carries Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Abercrombie), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through 3rd dam sire (Race Time), Dillon Axowrthy/Adioo through 4th dam sire (Shadow Wave), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 5th dam sire (Ensign Hanover);
Christian Cullen – carries Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Bo Scots Blue Chip), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Overtrick)
Sokys Atom – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Tar Heel), Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Adios);
Butler BG – carries Spinster/Kathleen through dam sire (Race Time), Volomite/San Francisco maternal double through 2nd dam sire (Adios Butler);
Dream Away – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco triple through dam sire (Forrest Skipper), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Forrest Skipper), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco double through 2nd dam sire (Sonsam), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Sonsam), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 3rd dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Bret Hanover);
Albert Albert – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Albatross), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through dam sire (Albatross), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Bret Hanover);
Holmes Hanover – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Tar Heel), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 5th dam sire (Dillon Axworthy).**also carries Manette/Arion/Margaret Parrish through 2nd dam sire (Henry T Adios) & 3rd dam sire (Rodney), in my opinion this is the primary influence**;
Ticket To Heaven – carries Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Airliner), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through 2nd dam sire (Thorpe Hanover), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 5th dam sire (Ensign Hanover);
BGs Bunny – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/adioo through dam sire (Bret Hanover);
Camtastic – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Albatross), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through dam sire (Albatross), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Tar Heel), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Sampson Hanover), Volomite/San Francisco through 4th dam sire (Irish Hal);
What’s Next – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Bret Hanover), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Tar Heel), Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Wilmington);
Walton Hanover – carries Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Best Of All), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Bullet Hanover);
Troublemaker – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Bret Hanover);
Classic Garry – a bit of an anomaly, does not carry any Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco, Dillon Axworthy/Adioo, or The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen maternally. From what I can tell the main influence is via Lady Marjoe and her son Jack Potts through 2nd dam sire (Kimberlene)???;
Northern Lights – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Albatross), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through dam sire (Albatross), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Tar Heel), Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Adios);
On The Road Again – carries Adioo through dam sire (Bye Bye Byrd);
Silent Spring – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Bret Hanover), Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Good Time), Kathleen through 2nd dam sire (7th dam of Good Time), Spinster/Kathleen through 4th dam (Lady Scotland/dam Spinster by Spencer whose 3rd dam is Kathleen);
Sands A Flyin – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Bret Hanover), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through 3rd dam sire (Dancer Hanover), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 5th dam sire (Tar Heel);
Seahawk Hanover – Midnight through dam sire (Meadow Skipper), Midnight through 4th dam sire (Billy Direct), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 5th dam sire (Sandy Flash);
Die Laughing – Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Albatross), The Old Maid/Spinster through dam sire (Albatross), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Shadow Wave), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Painter), Volomite/San Francisco through 4th dam sire (Good Time), Kathleen through 4th dam sire (7th dam of Good Time);
Perfect Art – Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Nihilator), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Nihilator), Margaret Parrish/Arion/Manette through dam sire (Nihilator), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Big Towner), Margaret Parrish/Arion/Manette through 2nd dam sire (Big Towner), Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Big Towner), Kathleen through 2nd dam sire (Big Towner 10th dam Kathleen), The Old Maid/Spinster through 3rd dam sire (Dancer Hanover), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 4th dam sire (Tar Heel);
Make A Deal – Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Abercrombie), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 3rd dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Bret Hanover), Adioo through 5th dam sire (Adios);
New York Motoring – Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Shadow Wave), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Tar Heel), Volomite/San Francisco through 5th dam sire (Volomite);
Direct Scooter – San Francisco through dam sire (Noble Victory), Kathleen through 3rd dam sire (Spencer);
Village Jasper – Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Abercrombie), Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Most Happy Fella), Kathleen through 2nd dam sire (Most Happy Fella), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 3rd dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 3rd dam sire (Bret Hanover), Kathleen through 6th dam sire (Spencer), Margaret Parrish/Arion/Manette through 7th dam sire (Arion Guy), Arion/Manette though 8th dam sire (Todd);
Live Or Die – Tar Heel/ Volomite/San Francisco double source through dam sire (Temujin), Kathleen through dam sire (Temujin), Adioo through dam sire (Temujin), Tar Heel/ Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Romeo Hanover);
Save Fuel – Midnight through dam sire (Meadow Skipper).

 

As you may be able to see, one thing all of Bettor’s Delight’s top 50 money earners in Australia have in common, with the exception of Classic Garry & Save Fuel, is a doubling up of the primary influences of Bettor’s Delight maternally with what the broodmare sire offers maternally. Either a close up connection to Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco blood, Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo blood, or The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen blood maternally, quite often in combination. But without a doubt, the blood that seems to pop up most prominently is Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco.

Which brings me to He’s Watching’s maternal pedigree. And please bear with me because it is very detailed.
Dam sire (Real Desire) – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through dam sire (Real Desire/Troublemaker/Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Real Desire/Troublemaker/Bret Hanover), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Real Desire/Trenton/Overtrick), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through dam sire (Real Desire/Trenton/Thorpe Hanover), Adioo through dam sire (Real Desire/Trenton/Adios), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Real Desire/Trenton/Sandy Flash), Spinster/Kathleen through dam sire (Real Desire/Race Time), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Real Desire/Shadow Wave), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through dam sire (Real Desire/Ensign Hanover)
2nd dam sire (Jennas Beach Boy) – carries Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy/Cam Fella/Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/ Jennas Beach Boy/Cam Fella/Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/ Jennas Beach Boy/Cam Fella/Dale Frost), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy/Cam Fella/Ensign Hanover), Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy/Windshield Wiper/Bye Bye Byrd), The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy/Windshield Wiper/Thorpe Hanover), Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy/Windshield Wiper/Adios), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy/Windshield Wiper/Raider), Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy /Adios), Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 2nd dam sire (Real Desire/Jennas Beach Boy/Norette Hanover)
3rd dam sire (No Nukes) – Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 3rd dam sire (No Nukes/Overtrick), Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 3rd dam sire (No Nukes/Tar Heel), Volomite/San Francisco maternal double through 3rd dam sire (No Nukes/Good Time), Kathleen through 3rd dam sire (No Nukes/ Good Time)
4th dam sire (Abercrombie) – Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 4th dam sire (Abercrombie)
6th dam sire (Bret Hanover) – Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through 6th dam sire (Bret Hanover), Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through 6th dam sire (Bret Hanover)
8th dam sire (Adios) – Adioo through 8th dam sire (Adios)

 

With his the 8 sources of Tar Heel in his 6th generation, 6 of which being unique, I think that He’s Watching will match up wonderfully well to Bettors Delight mares, particularly those who also carry a maternal connection to Tar Heel/Volomite/San Francisco through In The Pocket or to a lesser extent Holmes Hanover, Helen Hanover/Dillon Axworthy/Adioo through Falcon Seelster and Overtrick, or The Old Maid/Spinster/Kathleen through Bachelor Hanover or Light Brigade. I also suspect that he will match very well to Christian Cullen mares given the 5 separate maternal traces to Helen Hanover that He’s Watching possesses maternally through the first 3 dam sires (Real Desire, Jennas Beach Boy, No Nukes) considering that Christian Cullen also contains a trace to Helen Hanover through his 2nd dam sire Overtrick. Another stallion whose daughters I would not be surprised to see He’s Watching match up well with is Artsplace given his strong infusion of Dillon Axworthy maternally through his 2nd, 3rd and 7th dams.

 

Bee:

Yes the influence of Tar Heel through the maternal lines of mares has been critical to some of the success of sires. Not doubling up necessarily, but complementing. Like that blog I did on “engine room sires”, you need the guy at the wheel but you also need the guy shovelling coal in the engine.
The Tar Heel factor is so interesting, as it poses a question about how long an influence can endure through broodmare sire (as his siring line is really gone now) and why it was/is that way for so many great male horses in the end, rather than leaving siring sons. Albatross the other standout longer term example.

David Sinclair:

I completely agree with your engine room sires post, especially laying the foundation within a pedigree. I believe that Tar Heel/Volomite fit your description perfectly maternally. I am constantly amazed at how many top horses from both hemispheres who carry Tar Heel and Volomite maternally, whether they be a dam sire, 2nd dam sire, 3rd dam sire etc, or whether they appear on the maternal side of dam sires. Albatross is quickly becoming very similar to Tar Heel in that regard. I have no doubt that when we look back in 20 years time he will provide a very similar influence.

The question you pose regarding some lines being successful maternally but not producing a lasting siring line has always puzzled me. I often wonder whether they become the victim of their own success. Being such dominant sires their fillies will often become quite potent broodmares. However, it is very rare that you would put a daughter of a particular sire to a son of that same sire, therefore you often have to look for another siring line. Tar Heel, Bret Hanover and Albatross have all been breed changing broodmare sires who were well ahead of the competition, with their daughters often becoming broodmare gems. However, with those other sires being so far behind in a broodmare sire sense, their daughters, looking collectively as a whole, would be somewhat inferior.

Therefore, the broodmare band that sons of Tar Heel, Bret Hanover and Albatross had to access was inferior compared to those that other sires were able to access, given that these other sires were able to breed to daughters of Tar Heel, Bret Hanover, Albatross etc. Consequently, these lines eventually fall out of favour.

In this regard, I would not be surprised to see the Artsplace siring line and the Bettors Delight siring line to also eventually die out solely due to their success as broodmare sires.

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Just back from my hugely enjoyable trip to the South Island, where I took in Show Day at Addington, and caught up with some of my youngsters at Studholme Bloodstock (thanks to Brian West and family for a lovely time and taxi service) and Macca Lodge (thanks to Brent and Sheree McIntyre for great southern hospitality).

Highlights were seeing Tintin In America looking in fine fettle at Nevele R – thanks so much to Nikki Reed for showing me around, not just Tintin but the other sires there, all in their paddocks, covers on, a bit muddy. That’s what I love seeing – some of the best horses in the world (A Rocknroll Dance, Gold Ace, McArdle, his son Tintin In America, and the great Christian Cullen) just hanging out and being normal horses!

The day before I had caught up with the 3yo Tintin In America filly co-owned by Brian and myself, recently qualified and now having a good break at Brian’s property. Her name is Be A Legend, and she has grown into a striking filly who will get better with another 6 months of growing and strengthening up. Worth the wait.

Another highlight was when Brent McIntyre took me over the backroads of Southland to meet John and Judy Stiven of Arden Lodge fame. They are passionate about breeding and harness racing, and really thoughtful in the way they have gone about developing their band of mares. It was great seeing some of those quality offspring and learning from John about his breeding decisions. Their mare Winter Rose won the NZSBA/PGG Wrightson Broodmare of Excellence 2015 presented on the Monday night function in Cup Week. Much deserved, as she has a fine record as a broodmare – she’s the dam of Bettor’s Strike, Southwind Arden, and the newcomer Arden’s Choice (more on her in another blog) amongst others.

Of course the other highlight for me was catching up with the two mares and foals I have at Macca Lodge, that I’ve never seen before in person: Dreamy Romance and her Big Jim filly, and Nostaglic Franco and her Tintin In America colt. (Those links will take you to my blogs where I look at the match resulting in these foals). All looking great! And so good to see those mares up close and get a real impression of them, which will help me make future decisions.

Photos

Be A Legend 3yo filly Tintin In America x A Legend

Be A Legend 3yo filly Tintin In America x A Legend (Safely Kept)

Breeder Bee Pears with sire Tintin In America (NZ)

Bee reconnecting with Tintin In America at Nevele R – and no, he didn’t try to nip me!

Tintin In America

Eye-to-eye with Tintin In America

Nostalgic Franco and her Tintin In America colt foal at Macca Lodge

Nostalgic Franco and her Tintin In America colt foal at Macca Lodge

Dreamy Romance and her Big Jim filly foal at Macca Lodge

Dreamy Romance and her Big Jim filly foal at Macca Lodge

 

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