Posts Tagged ‘Lismore’

Looking through the 2013 New Zealand yearling sales catalogue, there is a real mix of outcross, close bred and in-between pedigrees on show, which is great. It’s hard to tell if they reflect what breeders are deliberately trying, or more a match based on other preferences (commercial status of the sire, type, previous siblings etc)  that just happened to end up like that.

There are three yearlings, all fillies, from the wonderful USA Lismore family in the Woodlands draft (on behalf of Charlie Roberts). One of which has a very unusually close double up (in this case to the sire Western Ideal). Inbreeding is not something we often see now in New Zealand, so I was interested to find out what was behind it.

In this blog I’ll look at those three lots, and in the following blog I’ll check out an example of the other extreme, Lot 48 at the Australasian yearling sale, an outcross with a strong “colonial” flavour bred by Bryan and Marilyn Macey.

Line breeding US style

Charlie Roberts of Woodlands Stud fame had the opportunity to buy two affordable fillies from the wonderful Lismore family some years ago – Lismurray with a broken shoulder and Lisgarden with a slightly crooked leg – and bring them to New Zealand.

Lot 37 is a daughter of Lismurray called Lisconnie who is a Western Ideal mare. Charlie Roberts has bred her to Woodlands’ American Ideal, who of course is a son of Western Ideal. So that makes Lot 37 2×2 to the sire, and double ups so close on the siring line are unusual these days. Lisconnie’s previous foals were by Artsplace (I’m) Lisart now racing in Australia, and then by Bettor’s Delight for Red Sky Night who has just qualified at Cambridge this month.

Charlie Roberts’ reasoning behind selecting American Ideal as the next sire for Lisconnie is simple – if you are line breeding, breed to the best stallions in the pedigree and to the best stallions available. Not surprisingly, he rates American Ideal and Bettor’s Delight as the best.  He believes there is no problem about breeding so close (what would generally be regarded as inbreeding) so long as the horses are the best quality.

It is an interesting thought, and one that has thrown up some exceptionally good results in history – but also some disappointments. My own concern would be more about type.  In Lot 37 the pedigree is packed with horses that can leave types that we don’t recognise as sheer speed influences – Abercrombie, Cam Fella, Western Ideal himself can tend to leave bigger strong, tough types. However both the female lines have Albatross, and American Ideal does throw Matt’s Scooter into the mix.

It’s a risky breeding that Charlie Roberts is very relaxed about, and I guess he’s in a better position than many of us to experiment if he so chooses.  As they say,  the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And some of us may end up eating our words, while Charlie is eating the pudding!

There was a forum thread about this particular foal and similar close breeding later last year (although I don’t agree with this foal’s cross being described as 2×3 rather than 2×2 – if Tesio says 2×2 that’s good enough for my small brain!)

Lot 45 is Lisdargan’s filly also by American Ideal. Lisgarden is by The Panderosa, which makes this foal 3×3 to Western Hanover, again on the siring lines. And again, you get the double up of Albatross on the female lines.

And then finally Lot 53, a filly by Bettor’s Delight from Lismurray, who is a Presidential Ball mare, so that brings a 3×3 to Cam Fella, again on the siring lines. The filly will be a full sister to Lisharry who is now pushing the $70,000 mark in combined earnings here and Australia.

These lots all have a very strong American influence, of course.  As I said before, Charlie Roberts has followed his belief in going to “the best” and went to the best NZ bred sire of the time, Christian Cullen, with two of these mares but the results have been a bit disappointing to date, he says.

While the Lismore family is a fine one, we only know it here  from Lislea and Lis Mara as sires, who have not yet set our mares on fire although Lis Mara needs to be given a bit more time. The NZ families Charlie is creating from the two fillies he bought are the other connection to that family. There is plenty of room for the family reputation to improve in this corner of the world, and I think Charlie Roberts is enjoying that challenge.

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